Fukuyama says populism is a listening failure

Francis Fukuyama told Cast from Clay that liberal societies are being taken for granted and that populism is driven less by policy than by a failure to listen. The interview also argues that rulebound government frustrates citizens who want results, not process.

Why it matters: - Fukuyama’s argument reframes populism as a response to how governments and elites communicate, not just what policies they adopt. - The view matters because it ties democratic frustration to everyday experiences with bureaucracy, job loss and political neglect. - Cast from Clay’s chief executive, Tom Hashemi, said the pattern helps explain why some voters remain attracted to strongman politics.

What happened: - Francis Fukuyama spoke with Cast from Clay in a Policy Unstuck interview. - Fukuyama said western populations often take liberalism for granted, while refugees fleeing dictatorship better understand what liberal society offers. - Fukuyama said populism is “less a policy problem than a listening one.” - Fukuyama is the Stanford political scientist and author of The End of History and the Last Man, and he is the Olivier Nomellini Senior Fellow at the Freeman Spogli Institute.

The details: - Fukuyama said claims that communism “was actually not that bad” and that the Soviet Union and Mao’s China “weren’t such terrible places” reflect “outright ignorance.” - Fukuyama said educated people often responded to working-class pain from job losses to China with retraining proposals, while paying too little attention to how that experience felt. - Fukuyama said bureaucracy has become too rulebound, citing a clerk who will not issue a driver’s licence at 4:59 p.m. because the office closes at five. - Fukuyama said buying a government desk in the United States can involve several hundred pages of acquisition rules meant to stop corruption. - Fukuyama said officials have “completely lost sight of what the law was supposed to do.” - Fukuyama said citizens want clean water, safe flights, protection from disease and safe streets, not officials rewarded for following detailed rules instead of producing results. - Tom Hashemi said Fukuyama identifies a problem that Cast from Clay’s interviewees keep describing: government focused on process and weak on results.

Between the lines: - Fukuyama’s comments suggest democratic legitimacy depends partly on whether institutions make people feel heard, not just whether they look orderly on paper. - The critique also points to a gap between elite policy language and the emotional reality of communities hit by economic disruption. - The broader warning is that procedural government can look clean while still failing to meet public expectations.

What's next: - The full interview is available as the full interview. - Cast from Clay describes itself as a strategy and positioning consultancy that builds the infrastructure of policy influence for nonprofits. - More information is available on the company’s website. - Cast from Clay also lists its social channels on LinkedIn and X.

The bottom line: - Fukuyama’s message is that populism grows when liberal democracies stop listening and start hiding behind process.